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Louise Staley
2004-12-26 05:06:32 UTC
---POST 4 of 4---
DISCUSSION CONTINUED
---Generation 5---
Vis Con omits this generation.
Gen Coll says Sir John II Arundell was in ward to the Bishop of Exeter in
1310 and that his uncle Ralf Arundell had his wardship in 1317. Although
the same document says he granted lands to his Uncle Benedict Arundell in
1314. In 1334 he settled lands on his son John at the time of John's
marriage to Elizabeth Carminow (see fine above in generation 4). Gen Coll
lists, without supporting evidence, that this Sir John's wife was
Isabella, da. and heir of John de la Bere of Tolverne.
Wardour says John II inherited the Lanherne lands between 1311 and 1322
and was knighted by July 1334. Wardour does not assign a wife to this Sir
John.
---Generation 6---
All three sources agree that Sir John III Arundell married Elizabeth,
daughter and eventual coheiress of Sir Oliver Carminow. He was born after
1309 (underage and in ward to the Bishop of Exeter 1329-30) (Gen Coll),
knighted by 1371 (Wardour) and died between October 1374 and February 1376
(Wardour) although Gen Coll says he "drown'd with 1000 more going for
France 1 Ric. II, 1377" and cites Segar's Baronagium. Elizabeth Carminow
died 1354.
On the marriage of John III Arundell to his second wife, Isabella Multon,
in 1371 John III "settled the manor of Lanherne upon trust for his heirs
begotten on the body of Isabella da. of Sir Thomas Multon, Knt., with
remainder to the heirs of John [IV], son of Sir John Arundel (the
grantor), remainder to Oliver St. John [grandson of John III by an unnamed
daughter], remainder to John his son, remainder to the heirs of the said
John St. John on the body of Elizabeth de la Bere, remainder to Margaret
(the grantor's da.), wife of Reginald Bevyle, remainder to Ralf Sor,
remainder to John Colyn of Lanarte, and his issue by Rosie, da. of Sir
John Arundel." Gen Coll p. 221. (square brackets added).
This grant settles the manor of Lanherne on John III's heirs by his second
wife (of which there were none, nor very likely to be as he was over 60
when he married her), then to the heirs of his son John IV, then to the
heirs of an unnamed daughter, then to the heirs of his daughter Margaret,
then to Ralph le Soor, then to the heirs of a third daughter Rosie. This
Ralph le Soor cannot be the supposed father of Joan who married John I
Arundell about 1290 as that Ralph would have been dead for probably 70
years. However it does demonstrate a Soor/Arundell link which is otherwise
unexplained in this generation.
---Generation 7---
Again all sources are in agreement that Sir John IV Arundell married Joan,
daughter of Sir William Luscote. Sir John IV Arundell died before 5th
November 1376 v.p., his wife survived him. Joan Luscote married as her
second husband Sir William Lambourne before 23 July 1394. Her IPM survives
as C.I.P.M. 29 Edw. III, No. 31.
Crucially, Sir William Lambourne was first married to Joan, daughter and
heiress of Ralph Soor of Tolverne and Joan Lansladron (Gen Coll citing
Brook's Collections, No. 89). Sir William Lambourne and Joan Soor were the
parents of Annora Lambourne, the wife of Sir John V Arundell. Sir William
Lambourne died before 1407 when the Arundells inherited the Devonshire
manors of Battishorne, Darracott, Gratton, Loddiswell, Ideford, and
Spreacombe and land in Buckland Dinham and Luscott from the Luscote
inheritance. It was around this time that the Arundells also gained
possession of the Soor manors and the Lambourne inheritance of the manors
of Goran, Lambourn, Lanhadron, Penwerris and Tregarne Condurrow.
Traditionally the Soor inheritance is thought to have come directly
through Joan Soor, wife of John I Arundell, however there appears to be no
evidence cited by any of the sources that this was the case. It appears
possible that the Soor inheritance actually came through the Lambourne
line.
---Generation 8---
The three sources agree that Sir John V Arundell married Annora Lambourne,
daughter of Sir William Lambourne. Sir John V Arundell was born about 1366
(Wardour) and died 11 January 1435. Annora had died in January 1406. Sir
John V Arundell was knighted in 1399. He was known as Sir John the
Magnificent, no doubt partly as a result of inheriting at least 15 manors
and other lands. (See generation 7 for discussion of her parents).
---Generation 9---
John VI Arundell, known as John of Bideford Arundell in the Wardour
Muniments died 4 December 1423 v.p. (Gen Coll). Vis Con and Gen Col assign
Margaret daughter and coheiress of Sir John Burghersh as the wife of this
John. Wardour does not provide a wife. She was aged 30 years and more on
the death of her mother, Ismena Hanham, on 9 September 1420 and is named
in John VI Arundell's IPM (2 Hen. VI, No. 29). Margaret had previously
been married to John Grenville who had died late in 1411 s.p. Margaret and
her sister Maud, wife of Thomas Chaucer were involved in protracted
litigation with their husbands over the Burghersh inheritance.
The three sources consulted agree on the Arundell descent, at least in the
main line, after this generation. There remain outstanding issues with
some of the collateral branches and daughters however this is outside the
scope of this post.
Regards,
Louise
---
Quod dixi dixi
DISCUSSION CONTINUED
---Generation 5---
Vis Con omits this generation.
Gen Coll says Sir John II Arundell was in ward to the Bishop of Exeter in
1310 and that his uncle Ralf Arundell had his wardship in 1317. Although
the same document says he granted lands to his Uncle Benedict Arundell in
1314. In 1334 he settled lands on his son John at the time of John's
marriage to Elizabeth Carminow (see fine above in generation 4). Gen Coll
lists, without supporting evidence, that this Sir John's wife was
Isabella, da. and heir of John de la Bere of Tolverne.
Wardour says John II inherited the Lanherne lands between 1311 and 1322
and was knighted by July 1334. Wardour does not assign a wife to this Sir
John.
---Generation 6---
All three sources agree that Sir John III Arundell married Elizabeth,
daughter and eventual coheiress of Sir Oliver Carminow. He was born after
1309 (underage and in ward to the Bishop of Exeter 1329-30) (Gen Coll),
knighted by 1371 (Wardour) and died between October 1374 and February 1376
(Wardour) although Gen Coll says he "drown'd with 1000 more going for
France 1 Ric. II, 1377" and cites Segar's Baronagium. Elizabeth Carminow
died 1354.
On the marriage of John III Arundell to his second wife, Isabella Multon,
in 1371 John III "settled the manor of Lanherne upon trust for his heirs
begotten on the body of Isabella da. of Sir Thomas Multon, Knt., with
remainder to the heirs of John [IV], son of Sir John Arundel (the
grantor), remainder to Oliver St. John [grandson of John III by an unnamed
daughter], remainder to John his son, remainder to the heirs of the said
John St. John on the body of Elizabeth de la Bere, remainder to Margaret
(the grantor's da.), wife of Reginald Bevyle, remainder to Ralf Sor,
remainder to John Colyn of Lanarte, and his issue by Rosie, da. of Sir
John Arundel." Gen Coll p. 221. (square brackets added).
This grant settles the manor of Lanherne on John III's heirs by his second
wife (of which there were none, nor very likely to be as he was over 60
when he married her), then to the heirs of his son John IV, then to the
heirs of an unnamed daughter, then to the heirs of his daughter Margaret,
then to Ralph le Soor, then to the heirs of a third daughter Rosie. This
Ralph le Soor cannot be the supposed father of Joan who married John I
Arundell about 1290 as that Ralph would have been dead for probably 70
years. However it does demonstrate a Soor/Arundell link which is otherwise
unexplained in this generation.
---Generation 7---
Again all sources are in agreement that Sir John IV Arundell married Joan,
daughter of Sir William Luscote. Sir John IV Arundell died before 5th
November 1376 v.p., his wife survived him. Joan Luscote married as her
second husband Sir William Lambourne before 23 July 1394. Her IPM survives
as C.I.P.M. 29 Edw. III, No. 31.
Crucially, Sir William Lambourne was first married to Joan, daughter and
heiress of Ralph Soor of Tolverne and Joan Lansladron (Gen Coll citing
Brook's Collections, No. 89). Sir William Lambourne and Joan Soor were the
parents of Annora Lambourne, the wife of Sir John V Arundell. Sir William
Lambourne died before 1407 when the Arundells inherited the Devonshire
manors of Battishorne, Darracott, Gratton, Loddiswell, Ideford, and
Spreacombe and land in Buckland Dinham and Luscott from the Luscote
inheritance. It was around this time that the Arundells also gained
possession of the Soor manors and the Lambourne inheritance of the manors
of Goran, Lambourn, Lanhadron, Penwerris and Tregarne Condurrow.
Traditionally the Soor inheritance is thought to have come directly
through Joan Soor, wife of John I Arundell, however there appears to be no
evidence cited by any of the sources that this was the case. It appears
possible that the Soor inheritance actually came through the Lambourne
line.
---Generation 8---
The three sources agree that Sir John V Arundell married Annora Lambourne,
daughter of Sir William Lambourne. Sir John V Arundell was born about 1366
(Wardour) and died 11 January 1435. Annora had died in January 1406. Sir
John V Arundell was knighted in 1399. He was known as Sir John the
Magnificent, no doubt partly as a result of inheriting at least 15 manors
and other lands. (See generation 7 for discussion of her parents).
---Generation 9---
John VI Arundell, known as John of Bideford Arundell in the Wardour
Muniments died 4 December 1423 v.p. (Gen Coll). Vis Con and Gen Col assign
Margaret daughter and coheiress of Sir John Burghersh as the wife of this
John. Wardour does not provide a wife. She was aged 30 years and more on
the death of her mother, Ismena Hanham, on 9 September 1420 and is named
in John VI Arundell's IPM (2 Hen. VI, No. 29). Margaret had previously
been married to John Grenville who had died late in 1411 s.p. Margaret and
her sister Maud, wife of Thomas Chaucer were involved in protracted
litigation with their husbands over the Burghersh inheritance.
The three sources consulted agree on the Arundell descent, at least in the
main line, after this generation. There remain outstanding issues with
some of the collateral branches and daughters however this is outside the
scope of this post.
Regards,
Louise
---
Quod dixi dixi